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Permalink Reply by Prem Prakash Shukla on July 30, 2015 at 17:21

I am fully agree with you sir.

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Permalink Reply by Siddhartha Shankar Ray on July 29, 2015 at 18:45

Dear Munesh Sir,

Many thanks for your sort of 'out-of-track' yet extremely valuable post. The three required traits as explained by the sales/marketing people are rather inherent in the profession of LIS -  Marketing, Communication skill & Presentation techniques. Those of us who are competent & fortunate enough to be groomed in institutions congenial to acquire such traits, have demonstrated (these traits) in their profession field. A Library professional, if s/he is enterprising, can speak fluently in English and have an idea of the market potentiality of various products (I think that last issue is quite known to all competent professional) s/he can certainly make it with ease!

My first exposure to such endeavour was in early 80s! In those days the Elsevier Company tied up with Allied Publishers to Allied -Elsevier Journal Marketing Group. I was pretty sure to join them but within a few days, I was selected for a job at ICMR & joined them & my life was entirely different altogether

I must admit that the dynamism in their service life haunted me throughout my life!!  My second one was during 2003-4 (when I was rather old, by the yardstick both in profession & age!)  through some information from a marketing person who went Thailand to attend a meeting. I got a tip from him that some foreign publisher intends to recruit an individual to look after the marketing in Asian Countries. I got the e.mail and contacted the individual. I also enclosed a write-up on trends of Biomedical & Public Health Research in Asian Countries. I clearly mentioned in my resume that I have no formal exposure to sales & marketing but I have adequate knowledge & exposure by which can tell which Indian Research Institute doing what in the field of Health & Biomedical Research and what sort of materials are supposed to help them. I was offered a wonderful assignment and was asked to be stationed in China. However, I had to decline the offer with apology as I never want to relocate in any Communist Country!!

I have cited two very personal experiences to explain that our professionals are no less competent than those people and as I know a few of my seniors who were big shots in our profession and extremely efficient & successful professionals are working in senior capacities with International publishers. With the excellent & high level knowledge of Computer-based services, our professionals are way ahead as I believe.

Sincerely,

Siddhartha S. Ray, Calcutta

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Permalink Reply by Munesh Kumar on July 29, 2015 at 19:45

Sir, Whenever I post any forum for discussion and knowledge exchange, I eagerly wait for your replies; content, quality inputs and teachings, and all which you always share with us. 

Sir, your experience and sketches of past are similar and its genesis to my forum, its like a historical background for my forum. I am pleased to cite your above writing as genesis of this post and I am agree with your statement and its true "...with the excellent & high level knowledge of Computer-based services, our professionals are way ahead"

(Sir, kindly accept my request to not address me as Sir. I am one your student. Though, I am heading library of my institute but I would like to be addressed same as you address to your students. I am blessed with your regular guidance and affection...)

Thanking You sir...  

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Permalink Reply by Siddhartha Shankar Ray on July 30, 2015 at 0:54

My Dear Munesh,

Thanks for your post and your comments. However, I don't think myself worthy for the complements bestowed upon me! But I felt myself pampered (even at this age!!) This forum, as I see it is a platform to exchange my ideas AND FEELINGS as a professionals with other Co-professionals. Age & experience are certainly some attributes which enrich a person to understand and deal with situations (as often it is observed, that the individual has encountered or seen someone to encounter similar situations in his/her journey in the life!) and mine is exactly the same. May be I am a bit more expressive while my contemporaries are not. But I feel it sort of ethical(I don't know whether I am pleading for my sentiment/nature) to keep, especially, younger generations, aware and exposed to some common incidents and issues which I had encountered and they are also supposed to face in their professional life. I feel that my experience may be sort of 'simulation' for their cases!
The Library I work has other staff who are quite younger to me and amidst them I fit-in as a 'co-worker' with certain exceptions like their respects to & dependence upon me as their guide and mentor. As I have worked in diverse subject fields of different institutional settings, I can claim that I am sort of accommodative both for clients and colleagues. And as I look back to my professional career which is gradually approaching to its end, I feel happy for what I had done and what I have been doing. And most importantly, I never cared for what I have accomplished nor did I ever cherished for accomplishment and this made me happy all through. I still feel myself extremely lucky to be rewarded with so many opportunities and I am extremely doubtful whether I was ever competent enough to achieve them. As you speak about the quality of the contents of my posts, you see, they are what I have collected throughout my professional life. Admittedly, I had been honest to my consensus and transparent to dealings.

To conclude, I should admit that I do not consider myself as a high grade intellectual or scholar. What I write are from experience & consensus that's all.

Sincerely,

Siddhartha S. Ray

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Permalink Reply by Munesh Kumar on July 30, 2015 at 21:15

Sir, with this personality, you are being quoted at everywhere in everyone's professional and personal life as a mentor, teacher, guide, motivator, supporter and as a real colleague. I Thanks you for seamless valuable content and precious knowledge for forum and for us.

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Permalink Reply by Dr. Dimple on July 29, 2015 at 19:57

Munesh Sir,

I completely agree with your answer to Siddhartha Sir, In any forum discussion i am always waiting for his post.

Sir your post (answer) is completely different then others (it is actually out of box of my mind) i read sir's answer 2-3 times, which are his real experience.

I am particularly waiting for siddhartha sir's answer for this post, because when i am commenting on the post or sir somewhere agree with 1-2 sentences or words of my post, it feel that i have 0.5% knowledge which is true (It's like one drop of water from the ocean).

One more thing i want to share about both of you sir, (Siddhartha Sir and Munesh Sir) when i read your conversation i always tell my mom that till i need to learn many things, which is not even known to me in our field. Sir thanx once again for being with us, in this platform

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Permalink Reply by Siddhartha Shankar Ray on July 30, 2015 at 7:47

Dear Dimple Madam,

Thanks for your compliments and sentiment. I learnt that my posts are often different and I partially admit that too and the reason is I am in this profession for so many years when many among you might have not born. (like some of my colleagues were just born and some born even later when I joined service!!) 

As you will continue in service you will also be enriched with life's experiences. At the same time please try to see a single issue from different angles and you will develop an unique ability to analyse the issue in different perspectives. This is extremely important in our life as well.

A few days ago a great son of India passed away. Yes, I am speaking of Late Abdul Kalam Saab. He used to see every failure as a  step closer to success! This is unique.

As an honest confession, I must admit that I do not consider myself  a high grade scholar nor a very good writer. I presume I have confessed about it in some of my earlier posts.

Keep your mind's eyes open and you will see that ideas are humming into your brain. And make a habit to write diaries. Express all your thoughts openly and analyse them. Like, say you have received a new group of users in your library. Talk to them, try to understand what they require without being inquisitive. You'll see that they are opening up before you. Keep this in your diary. It will add to your experience& will be useful for you later.

And try to learn from everything, everybody and everyday and write them all in your diary.I am confident they will pay you back in many ways. First, you will develop writing skills, the flow of writing and the art of sequential writing. These two things will be quite helpful for you when you will be writing your Ph.D. thesis to start with and will be your asset for the lifetime. Even if you have a quarrel with anybody, write that too. Try to see the issues in cool brain and review the situation. I am pretty sure that you will observe a couple of alternatives in your dealings.

I read my old diaries. I some time lough within myself seeing how gullible I had been in some occasions. Had it been me of today, I might have acted in a different way. But the Naivety of the past makes us  mentally mature. All these are reflected in our expressions. So don't feel I am a high caliber individual, it is just that I have passed milestones of years and naturally had varied experiences as I have seen many things to happen (which you people are yet to see or encounter) and I open those boxes before you during discussions that's all.

Sincerely,

Siddhartha S. Ray, Calcutta

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Permalink Reply by Munesh Kumar on July 30, 2015 at 21:07

Thank You Ma'am

we should always think for the out of the box of mind. Its my beginning, I always carry many mistakes with me, kindly take only the right part out of all. It's my request with you. Yes, it is right to follow the proven path/teachings. The information what we get from Siddhartha Sir, is not only teaching us to improve but also it is like virtual mentor for us.

And, thank you Ma'am for following my little writings on lislinks. 

Thanking you... 

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Permalink Reply by SHEKHAR RAI on July 30, 2015 at 17:54

Dear Munesh,

I think if a person has completed his MBA in marketing or sales, then it would be just a matter of two months to train him/her in library science. It is not necessary for them to know about the basics of classification, cataloguing or they should have read the proulogomena for that matter. They just need to focus on their product. Their industry depends upon specialization. An ILMS vendor should be an expert in ILMS, not in any other field.

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Permalink Reply by Munesh Kumar on July 30, 2015 at 20:09

Dear Shekhar,

MBA does’t include any lesson of Library Science but Library Science includes many subjects and sub-subjects. You can find the justified flavor of management; Computer and IT, Psychology, Ethics, Communication model, business model, purchase, financial contents and many more. If you say that a library professional after 2-3 months training he/she can perform better in library product services  and marketing, I accept it and I would agree with you.  

As you also know that training is a process of learning which follows a set of practice of knowledge delivery. Training is worthless, without theories and key terms/definitions.

You have mentioned that classification and cataloging is/are not necessary to learn for a marketing agent. Partially you may be right here but, an agent she/he should know, that why, what to give, to whom, when and how? If a person knows about it then he/she is following the theories of classification and cataloging, it makes us perfect, at our end. Don’t go for the dictionary meaning of cataloging, catch the implication and importance of cataloging, you will come know the basis objective of cataloging. I think UGC should make classification and cataloging mandatory in the syllabus of each domain. And ‘Prolegomena’, it’s really an encyclopedia of rules and regulations for handling the universe of knowledge. I would suggest to all my senior and colleagues, to read this ultimate book once, despite of domain and subject.  

You have also mentioned that “just need to focus on the product”, I would like to tell that libraries are not like kitchen, where you are selling a product of our daily use, and we are bound to buy them. “Library is house of wisdom for generations”. Here we are talking about intellectual product. And I am aware that you also have studied the Maslow's hierarchy of needs, where, there is a very huge/big difference between/among the levels of bottom and top. The same difference applies here, once you talk about marketing of products; domestic-daily use and Intellectual for generations.

I would also like to mention that general people think that they can easily learn library science within same 2-3 month, like you have mentioned. How it can be possible to teach a professional subject, which has sets of theories and practical, orientation and training etc. within 2-3 month? Industries always focus on profit maximization only.

 

Thanks for putting valuable turn in forum

 

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Permalink Reply by Siddhartha Shankar Ray on July 31, 2015 at 7:00

Dear Sri Shekhar Rai Sir,

I have gone through your post.

Unfortunately I can not agree with you. I am sorry for this.

May be the intrinsic reason is that I am a Library professional out & out and thus may be I am biased or it may also happen because of the fact that my knowledge about a vast subject Like Management is virtually nil.

I must admit at the very beginning that my knowledge & wisdom is quite limited. However, admittedly, since I am associated with this profession for a couple of decades and because of my job requirements, I have to interact with marketing professionals I should get an opportunity to place my comment in this issue!

Sure, they come and they convince and sale their product. During this exercise I have noticed that one subtle point seems to be missing. That is to what extent a product of a particular Company will be more useful for the client. This issue has both ethical as well as practical aspects or viewpoints. Selling a product, at least as I personally feel, is not a big deal. But more important issue is whether it will be best suitable for the purchaser. . As a buyer, s/he should certainly judge the 'most suitable' among all the products (like, for instance, there is a database on Economic Literature named ECONLIT and as my limited knowledge goes, there are more than one Vendors selling the same product as the Companies have purchased their license right  from American Economic Association the original creator & Owner.

The searching techniques, user-friendliness of search engines, linkages to full text materials, the platform etc. etc. are some of the deciding factors. But  as I noticed, they hardly have ideas about the ongoing research of a particular organization so that they can explain about its tailor-made suitabilities over & above the others in the market.They have extremely limited knowledge how Research on Macroeconomics differ from Development Economics and to what extent, their product is advantageous(user friendliness of platform, Filtering  etc. etc.) in conducting research on a specific domain of the subject. I suppose that here comes what can be called the expertise of a library professional. Often the marketing/Sales people (I must beg your pardon as I can not clearly distinguish a Marketing Person from a Sales Person because of my limited knowledge) cite example of similar institutions who have purchased their product but if one from the buyer's side  asks and briefly discuss about the difference of Research focus among them, (like "Well Said, but they are doing research on this area while ours is on that... Don't you think that such variations have considerable effect in ....".?)  the sales people often found to be fumbling and visibly appears to be helpless. Here needs the knowledge & expertise of a Library professional as I understand and I am absolutely confident that such knowledge & expertise (especially for products applicable in the fields of Applied & Life Sciences) are absolutely impossible to achieve with a training of two three months in Librarianship.  

Never-the-less, for selling a costly product, often the marketing professionals have to demonstrate before the academicians or Scientists. I have my personal experience of such demonstration and interrogation about selling of MEDLINE database when PUBMED was not introduced as an open source. I still visualize the perplexed & mundane attire of a very smart Regional Manager who came to sell the product at my the then institute. Interestingly, within a couple of weeks the younger local representative made another power point presentation while demonstrating a 'mapping of research' and the advantages relating to tailor made coverage and searching facilities over & above the products of other Vendors, bagged the order!! And more interestingly, the young salesman who is now a Country Manager still bows his head down to a petty Librarian who has  left the profession of Medical Librarianship long ago!! 

The reason is rather simple, the petty Librarian (who once upon a time studied some books on Molecular Biology for his/her graduation)  somehow developed sort of affection towards the struggling younger salesman and volunteered to do the "mapping" for him roaming through three different Libraries to understand the intrinsic advantage of the product of this particular vendor!!.

As an epilogue, I'd like to add that during a felicitation (just a couple of months ago) of this "Marketing Doyen" in a five star hotel the obscure 'Library man' received a 'Pranam' before a group of bewildered guests!!

 

 I hope with my limited ability, I could explain the requirement of knowledge & expertise of a Librarian in Marketing & Sales field as well!

 

Sincerely,

Siddhartha S. Ray, Calcutta

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Permalink Reply by Dr. Dimple on July 31, 2015 at 21:02

Respected Siddhartha Sir,

Thank you very much for your valuable suggestion. And i will follow it from today itself.

Dimple

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